The Engineer class, unlike others, is team-work oriented. One engineer isn’t much; a low or mid level may survive, and a high level can do some damage. Two engineers, however, changes the dynamics. There are a lot of variables in considering this class: the layout of the map, the number of engineers on, and the make-up of constructions.

Currently, two or more engineers can easily dominate a match. Just throw some defense sentinels, a link sentinel, and keep the turret linked. While the basis of teamwork will be maintained with the exception to the offense engineer, we want subclasses to balance this out.

The regular engineer class will be nerfed. It will serve as the “middle-man” between the other two subclasses: base engineer and offense engineer. The normal class will have limited building blocks, limited vehicles, limited turrets, and will only be able to summon few sentinels(say, 1 defense, 1 offense). In this sense, they encompass everything of an engineer, but in nerfed form to give players a reason for choosing subclasses.

The base engineer, much like DC’s base specialist, will serve the purpose of defense and base making. Designed to stay put in their base. They’ll be able to summon maximum blocks, defense and link sentinels with construction healing properties, as well as the e-wall, and all turret variations. No offensive sentinels and no vehicles. They’ll receive a slightly higher experience return on defense sentinels. Maximized shield healing and shield regen abilities.

The offense engineer will be designed to play out of the base. They’ll receive an autogun, one or two defense sentinels, and full vehicle capabilities with maximum armor regen and armor vampire. Very limited in blocks, and they won’t have the other sentinels(lightning, blaster, mercury). They’ll have a bit of resupply and regeneration to compensate, and full shield regen, for survival. Minimal shield healing. Vehicle and sentinel damage output will be greater than the base and normal engineer. Also, depending, I may nerf their XP return on linking to other engineers to encourage out-of-base play.

With the introduction of the offense engineer, this will sever the heavily team-based engineer class, which will, in my opinion, balance the class. In this sense, turret power(base engineers) will depend on the number of base and normal engineers present. Additionally, normal engineers will serve the purpose of defense, offense, or a combination of both.

Here are the specifications, subject to modification:

The normal engineer class:
- Loaded Engineer up to level 15
- Blocks will cost more points to summon: roughly 2-3 points per block.
- Can summon to a max of 2 defense sentinels, or 1 defense and 1 offense(which include lightning, blaster, and mercury), or 2 offense
- Can summon a minigun or energy turret
- Can summon a scorpion, maybe a SuperBeast
- A reduced shield regen level
- A reduced shield healing, up to level 2
- A reduced armor regen and vampire

The base engineer subclass:
- Loaded Engineer up to level 20
- Blocks will be standard 1 point per block
- Can summon a max of 3 defense sentinels, or 2 defense and 1 link sentinel
- Can summon 1 mini, energy, ball, or link turret
- No vehicles, no offensive sentinels
- Defense sentinels will be given construction healing properties
- Full shield regen, and maxed shield healing
- A reduced armor regen and vampire

The offense engineer subclass:
- Loaded Engineer up to level 15
- Limited in the kinds of block constructions, blocks will be roughly 3-4 blocks per point
- Can summon a max of 1 autogun and 1 or 2 defense sentinels
- Defense sentinels will be given construction healing properties
- No turrets, no link sentinels or other sentinel variation
- Full shield regen, up to level 1 shield healing
- Maxed armor regen and vampire
- Increased sentinel and vehicle damage output
- Resupply 1 or 2, Regen up to level 2
- Denial up to level 2

This is only a starting point and is subject to modification. Please give your thoughts!

Take the link turrets out. They are not healed by the link sent and can be overpowering by themselves.

The link turret has always been odd. I won't miss it.


Regarding Hollon's post a few clarifications:

My concept for the "offense engineer" is more "run and run over" than anything else. "Mechanized infantry" might be a better term. I want him to do well using auto gun assist with a regular weapon or using a vehicle. Hence the defense sents with good armor repair. Maxed vampire will probably be overkill, but I want him to be able to survive in the open unlike a standard engineer.

The regular eng class shouldn't lose too much, but it is bit too good right now. Fewer blocks is a given. Link sentinel and advanced turrets will be the "basemaker" specialty. We will have to carefully consider the available vehicles for both the "mechanized" and standard class.

One thing that I did a long time ago was buff turrets, and in particular the minigun turret. One reason for this is that for a long time, turret linking wasn't working reliably, so I did this to compensate. But I also thought it was underpowered. We will be doing an update to the RPG near the time we put together subclasses, so I will be adjusting its strength to somewhere between the current value and the old one in druids.

Good. Ever since I started playing UT2003/2004, I've always felt that the WM is the forward soldier, the AM as the artillery, the medic as s support/backup, and the engineer as the defensive specialist.

dc_demonslayer wrote:
Take the link turrets out. They are not healed by the link sent and can be overpowering by themselves.
I, too, won't miss it. No one honestly uses it as much as the others(and I kept getting a weird weapon bug at times when I exited the turret). Any more thoughts?

Here's a brief overview of the major changes, it's a bit different from Hollon's initial post. Shield blast is now 30 adren, 150 healing max. Same value as heal blast now.

Normal Engineer max points is 12. 12 blocks. Can summon 3 def or 2 def + 1 lightning, mercury or blaster sent. Can summon 1 mini + 1 energy turret. Vehicles: 2 Scorpions, or Scorpion + Raptor or a Super Beast. All damage normal. Medium shield regen and armor regen. Gets shield blast.

Base Builder max points is 20. 20 blocks. Can summon 3 def or 2 def + 1 link sent or Energy Wall. Can summon 2 mini, energy or ball turrets. Cannot summon vehicles. All damage normal. Low shield regen and medium armor regen. Gets shield blast.

Mechanized infantry max points is 15. No blocks. Can summon 3 def or 1 autogun + 2 def sents. Cannot summon turrets. Can summon a tank or superbeast, or a manta or raptor + scorpion. Vehicle damage bonus 1.3, sentinel .8. (This is from the vehicle specialist skill and might be an issue.) High shield and armor regen. No shield blast. Gets resupply.

My initial impression is that the mech class is the strongest of the three, and i think this is mainly because of the vehicle specialist skill bonus. We will probably do an update to give it normal damage output.

Additional thoughts: The function of the Lightning sent is different here than on the old DC - it is to attract monsters while doing small amounts of damage. It might be a good addition to the Base Builder.

I re-evaluated my goal of having the "normal" class an equally powerful alternative to the subclasses. I think it's better for it to be a starting point, where you can choose a specialization once you hit level 80 or 90 or so.

Mech infantry proved to be a bit... obnoxious due to the tank and not having much in the way of team options. So we've revamped it completely and given it 5 blocks, the basic vehicles plus raptor and Super beast. It can summon 2 (low power) autoguns and a def sent and gets low levels of resupply and vamp plus shield regen to 150. For now it doesn't get a turret, but we may change that depending on how well it plays.

Base builder now gets the blaster and merc sents in addition to lightning and link sents and vehicles, as well as one usable vehicle, the scorpion.

Critical error

UT2004 Build UT2004_Build_[2005-11-23_16.22]

OS: Windows NT 6.0 (Build: 6002)
CPU: GenuineIntel PentiumPro-class processor @ 3000 MHz with 3838MB RAM
Video: NVIDIA GeForce 9300 / nForce 730i (7786)

General protection fault!

History: UObject::ProcessEvent <- (InteractionMaster Package.InteractionMaster, Function Engine.InteractionMaster.Process_PostRender) <- UInteractionMaster::MasterProcessPostRender <- FPlayerSceneNode::Render <- UGameEngine::Draw <- UWindowsViewport::Repaint <- UWindowsClient::Tick <- ClientTick <- UGameEngine::Tick <- Level Romra Moon Station SE <- UpdateWorld <- MainLoop <- FMallocWindows::Free <- FMallocWindows::Realloc <- 10910191 0 FArray <- FArray::Realloc <- 0*2 <- FMallocWindows::Free

That's the normal "engi/med" crash. It gives everyone the same message. I'd love to solve the problem, I would. But it's not a simple one at all.

maybe we could get a private session going and try and crash as engineers/monstermedics?