The Monster and Medic class, I believe, were originally split in the old(pre-200) days of DruidsRPG(I’m probably wrong). Now, as was with the subclassing in DC, the subclasses will reintroduce the separation of the monster master and the medic. The base monster/medic class will serve as the “middleman” and will be nerfed to balance the other two subclasses.

The base class currently heals +175 health points beyond the base health. For a medic-specific class, this may be appropriate, but not seemingly so for a monster/medic hybrid. Additionally, the base class is able to summon an upwards of a lava skaarj, cosmic brute, and ghost titan. This is excessive for a hybrid. Altogether, the base class is overpowered in terms of staying alive(high DR, high base healing) and damage (high summons). The base class will be nerfed to heal an upwards of +150, and healing power will be less than a medic. Additionally, they will be less efficient in monster points, and will only be able to summon up to, say, a skaarj variation. They’ll be given weaker healing artifacts than that of a medic. Experienced healing will be capped.

The medic will heal an upwards of +200, and experienced healing will be as-is currently. Medics will be more efficient in their healing sphere and blast, and we will reintroduce the remote healer artifact. Weapon damage output will be decreased. They’ll have a maxed advanced DR and regen.

The summoner class will have a very limited healing, upwards of +50. Healing output will be similar to a medic, to heal pets. No experienced healing. Weapon damage output will be reduced, though not as much as the medic. They’ll be efficient in monster points, and the lava/cosmic variation will be appropriate. We will reintroduce the monster DR ability. They will have adrenal drip 3, and maxed regen for their pets as well as medic awareness.

Specifications, subject to modification:

Base summoner/medic class:
- Loaded Medic up to level three, upwards of +150 healing
- Less healing output
- Loaded Monsters up to level 6 or 7, maximum 1 or 2 summons
- Monster Points dependent on monster loadout
- Adrenal drip 2
- Exp healing capped at level 4 or 5
- Healing sphere will cost slightly more adren/sec, or does slightly less healing/sec
- Healing blast will, as is, be 25 adren at its reduced healing

Medic subclass:
- Loaded Medic up to level four, upwards of +200 healing
- As is healing output
- No Loaded Monsters, no Monster Points
- Adrenal drip 2
- Exp healing as is
- Healing Sphere as is
- Healing blast will be as is in old DC, 50 adren at max healing of 400
- Remote healer
- Maxed regen, maxed advanced DR
- Weapon damage output decreased

Summoner subclass:
- Loaded Medic up to level 2, upwards of +50 healing
- Slightly less healing output than medic subclass
- Loaded Monsters up to 15, Monster Points up to 20
- Pet DR and DB abilities, health bonus, intelligence
- Maxed adrenal drip, maxed regen
- Weapon damage output decreased, but slightly higher than medic
- No exp healing

Currently, the summoner/medic class has the potential to perform just as good as a WM, which is a slight issue here. By nerfing the current class, that problem will be solved and will also give reasons to specialize in the summoner(which was the main reason for performing as good as a WM) or the medic(high XP return).

This is a starting point and is subject to modification. Please give your thoughts!

Just to clear things up, we aren't planning to nerf too much. Since DEK didn't have subclasses, the regular classes got some of the normally subclass-only toys, like Medics getting lava skaarj.

I personally don't like the idea of the Medic subclass very much, as the regular class does quite well in that role. So far we haven't thought of a good alternative - we might end up going with just the summoner until we come up with one.

As I have played medic a bit, I will share my thoughts.

Personal Experience with the Classes:
Medic/Monster Master: I use the base class almost exclusively when I play as my Medic because I want to be able to kill monsters and support players simultaneously. I don't want to worry about my own health. I also don't want to crash, and that's why I don't use Loaded Monsters (among other reasons). This is my setup.

Extreme Medic: Experience. That was the only reason I played as this class. Otherwise, I would not play this class because the damage output was halved. I liked killing monsters too much. The poison artifact helped me stay as the class for a little while longer, but it cost 50 adrenaline (too much to be worth it usually) so I didn't bother with it too much. I rarely used remote healing: by the time that the player you are trying to catch with a remote heal stand still, you might as well just heal blast or shoot/heal him intead.

Extreme Monsters: I didn't play that much with this class. It was very "lone-wolf" and I didn't like that.

Thoughts/Ideas:
1. How medics heal and do damage should be reconsidered. (Total revamp of Medics might not be a good idea right now though.)
2. The healing power gap between Extreme Medic and Medic/Monster Master should be increased.
3. Extreme Medics need a reliable way to deal damage to monsters i.e. poison blasts (that cost less and do less damage). Maybe.
4. Loaded Monster skills shouldn't crash the player. Nerfing the current class to make healers focus on summoning might cause more players to use other classes. It would me.
5. I believe Jefe is right in saying ". . . the regular class does quite well in that role . . ." in regards to healing.
6. I would not like to see the regular class nerfed in its healing power.
7. Healers (Extreme Medic only?) should have a way to monitor all players' health at all times (and perhaps location indicators). Medic Awareness 3.
8. Healers (Extreme Medic only?) should have an artifact with high cooldown that heals all players instantly for a certain amount.
9. Remote heal should act like chain lightning and hit (up to a maximum) healable targets nearby.

That's all I've got.

dragon7350 wrote:
As I have played medic a bit, I will share my thoughts.

Personal Experience with the Classes:
Medic/Monster Master: I use the base class almost exclusively when I play as my Medic because I want to be able to kill monsters and support players simultaneously. I don't want to worry about my own health. I also don't want to crash, and that's why I don't use Loaded Monsters (among other reasons). This is my setup.
My qualm about the base class was that it rivaled the WM. Adren drip 3, go berserk, no need to worry about self-damage(so ravaging your way through with a flak).
Your approach, however, is to include the killing of monsters. We have a conflict of ideas.
I think an important question regarding this is- what should the medic role be? Solely to help players? To add more firepower to the other classes? We may need to figure this out before we can move on further.

dragon7350 wrote:
Extreme Medic: Experience. That was the only reason I played as this class. Otherwise, I would not play this class because the damage output was halved. I liked killing monsters too much.
Again, a conflict of ideas when I regard the extreme medic as solely support. If the attribute of killing and healing are favored, rather than healing alone, we can definitely negate the extreme medic. As Jefe mentioned, the base class alone is sufficient in healing.

dragon7350 wrote:
1. How medics heal and do damage should be reconsidered. (Total revamp of Medics might not be a good idea right now though.)
This is probably the route to take if we were to consider the role of the medic. A medic weapon of infinity, that does no damage to monsters, changes things drastically, doesn't it?
dragon7350 wrote:
4. Loaded Monster skills shouldn't crash the player. Nerfing the current class to make healers focus on summoning might cause more players to use other classes. It would me.
I'm no where in regards to fixing crashes I personally like the summoner focus.
dragon7350 wrote:
6. I would not like to see the regular class nerfed in its healing power.
If we were to implement the extreme medic, we may have to nerf the base class in healing, as it is already sufficient in itself.

So then, how are we approaching the medic/monster class? Support only? Attack and support? Subclass the summoner for attack, and extreme medic for support, and leave the base class as attack/support? Throw out the extreme medic?

While a redesign of the medic class (and other class roles) might be something we attempt in the future, right now we need to focus on configurations using existing abilities and artifacts. Otherwise we will never get finished.

My preference is to keep the base medic class as close to possible to its current setup. Going back to the military analogy of my post in the engi thread, medics are soldiers. They should attack when they don't have healing duties. They probably shouldn't be as capable as weaponmasters, but we shouldn't nerf the class so much that it isn't fun to play.

The concept of getting most of your XP from healing is an idea that doesn't work well in practice. Extreme medic was very flawed and easily exploitable at the old DC. I don't think it needs to return.

For that reason we need to come up with a different concept for the second subclass, or just go with the "summoner" for the time being.

Medic could get resupply with infinite medic weapons dealing zero damage to monsters.

dragon7350 wrote:
Medic could get resupply with infinite medic weapons dealing zero damage to monsters.

I think that a "zero" damage medic weapon would not help any of the medics as they are dependent upon killing in order to get adrenaline to change their weapon to a medic's and also need the adrenaline for healing blasts and other artifacts.

If we go with a zero damage weapon, then the medic will need to have adrenaline drip from the start of that character forward plus xp from healing.

All reasonable posts, and Demon has a good point in regards to adren.

Weapon damage for medics is already halved. This could serve as a balance between their support role, and attack-backup role, so we may not have to do anything in regards to damage.

But, I still feel the lava skaarj is excessive, and is definitely something for a summoner. So, what this seems to be looking like is:

Keep the base class as-is, the only nerf being the monsters they summon, or the efficiency of their monster points(maybe double the monster point of each monster for the base class). Give the good monsters to the summoners.

How does this sound to everyone(at least, to those who've posted so far)?

hollon wrote:
Keep the base class as-is, the only nerf being the monsters they summon, or the efficiency of their monster points(maybe double the monster point of each monster for the base class). Give the good monsters to the summoners.

Yeah, sounds good to me. Does the current base medic do half damage?

hollon wrote:
But, I still feel the lava skaarj is excessive, and is definitely something for a summoner.

I agree. All high level summoned monsters need to be with the distinct subclass. Lower level monsters can stay with the base class as well as any subclasses.