Good evening guys.

First of all, let me congrats you all for running one of the best CoD5 WAR server. I know it's not an easy task, as I used to run a server for CoD2 and 4. In my opinion, the hardest thing in hosting a server is making sure the local rules are followed. And these rules you guys have are 1 of the main reason I play your server almost exclusively.

Yesterday I got banned for breaking one of these rules. "No spawn camping". But I'd like to discuss it a bit further with you guys, since I didn't had much time to deal with it in game, nor was it the right place for that.

To me, some rules are quite simple and doesn't implies personal judgement. No martyrdoom, flamethrowers or riflenade are no brainer. No spawn sniping means you can't aim directly at a spawn point and shoot as soon as someone spawns. But where I beleive I don't see the same rule explanation as you guys is about spawn camping. Or at least, it is what I came to conclusion after I got banned yesterday.

To me, spawn camping always been (an example, not the only way) : Going prone, hiding behind a barrel, using an MG42 and shooting directly at spawn location, instantly killing whoever may spawn, without a chance to retaliate. We often see players doing similar things, but right out a corner, 10 feet away from spawn point. I conceide, such behaviors tends to be really annoying and I will sometime type in chat a nice "Fuck You xxx" after 10 or so death. (hopping he will type something back during the time I run back and kill him... all tactics are good) But to me, this isn't spawn camping. The player can deceide to go an opposite way, throw a nade, use gas, smoke, or whatever to avoid/sneak around.

Now what happened yesterday. The map was Cliffside, that sniper-lover favorite. Teams were balanced, good challenge, altho maybe a bit more snipers than usual. But that's part of the game. After maybe half of the timer, I decided to use my sneak setup (type100 silenced, bomb squad, camouflage, silent step) to clear out the snipers on the other end of the map, to allow my team to reach for the flag. As said in this post, http://www.gametracker.com/clan/deathb4dishonor/forum.php?thread=16499 WAR game is about tactic and teamwork. First run went quite good and I may have got 10 to 12 kills (taking down prone snipers and mostly the one atop the hill, then backshooting ennemies at the flag) before I got killed. After I respawned, I ran back and did it again. On the third run, as you may guess, some other team players were waiting for me and this is where I beleive the admin may have tought I was spawn camping. I got injured and hid behind a wall to recover and reload. Step'd out to shot a whoever was coming to me across the bridge, and at the same time, whoever left the base to run for the flag. Then I hid again, to recover and reload. I may have done that (hide to recover from bullets and reload) maybe 4-5 times. But I'm 100% certain I never aimed directly at the spawn point. Such behaviors simply pisses me off and I would never do that to another players. But it's logical that I wouldn't run the ennemy's base flashing red with no bullets, and this is the only reason why I hide/step'd out...

Most of you guys played with me few time and I presume you know I'm not the kind to hide and shot at spawns. I beleive I'm a fair player, following your rules of conduct. Most of the time I spawn, throw away 2 nades and a gaz at flag then run right into the fray and shot at whatever moves until I die. Rinse and repeat...

(seems I have to state this in 2 posts)

(Continued from post 1)

Anyway, after I died and respawned that time, I got a message from the console saying something like : "Viper stop spawn camping or I'll ban you." I answered : "Dude, follow me on spec you'll see I wasn't". This is where all went wrong. As stated above, to me, what I did wasn't spawn camping but I understand it's all about judgement. So the admin on the console answered he just followed me on spec. To me it was clear from this point. We certainly don't have the same description of what spawn camping is. I know it wasn't the best answer possible, but I replied : "then there is 10 to 15 players that needs to be banned" trying to state my point, since I seen a lot of players, including few DDD members, that are running across ennemies's base on regular basis. But I am not here to talk about other's behaviors but mine.

Console then replied something like : "Don't be xxx, this is your final warning". I don't remember what xxx was, but I guess it ment "stop arguing". I simply replied "OK" and spawned with an usual submachine setup. At the same time another player wrote on chat : "for martyr?" which I beleive was directed to me, to know why I was about to be banned. Again, I may have talked too much, maybe I should have said nothing. But I replied something like : "Nah, for running ennemys base with silenced weapon and UAV jammer" That's it... 3 secs later I been kicked off the server.

"Please post banned players here. This way we will know the reason when they come back and pout." This is the subtitle of your private ban sub forum. So I guess the admin who banned me posted something there yesterday. To be honnest with you guys, I'd really like to hear the other side of the story, to help me understand your point of view; because to me all of this is more a big misunderstanding between 2 persons rather than a ban reason. But that, I won't argue. Afterall this is your server, not mine and in no way will I try to argue an admin judgement.

I'm not begging for an unban. I'm simply stating my point here because, as stated above, it wasn't the time nor the place to do it on the server yesterday. But if you beleive my point to be legitimate, then I'll be pleased if you guys would reconsider.

Sorry if all this post was a bit long, but it's not easy to properly express an opinion in a language that isn't native. I'm french canadian so please bare with me for any mistakes.

Hope to get a reply from you guys soon...
Regards,

(GFD) Viper_711

I will quote you and then answer

"Yesterday I got banned for breaking one of these rules. "No spawn camping".
You were warned for Spawn Killing, but but kicked for not knowing when to shut up.

"To me, some rules are quite simple and doesn't implies personal judgement. No martyrdoom, flamethrowers or riflenade are no brainer. No spawn sniping means you can't aim directly at a spawn point and shoot as soon as someone spawns".
You were Spawn Killing. I never mentioned "Spawn Camping"

"To me, spawn camping always been (an example, not the only way) : Going prone, hiding behind a barrel, using an MG42 and shooting directly at spawn location, instantly killing whoever may spawn, without a chance to retaliate".
You definition is wrong. Has nothing to do with going prone, hidding, using an MG or instantly killing the enemy. Although Spawn Camping has nothing to do with your case, I will answer you with my definition of spawn Camping:
Spawn Camping = Laying in wait in or close to the enemy spawn, picking them off with impunity as they spawn or as they are attempting to leave their spawn point. This usually means the enemy is being shot in the back or blind sided (as they spawn) with no chance to defend themselves.
I'll go one step further and give the definition of Spawn Sniping:
Spawn Sniping = Laying in wait, (with a rifle, scoped or unscoped) picking off the enemy as they spawn or as they leave the spawn. Not allowing the enemy to leave the spawn area by picking them off with impunity from a distance.
"I may have done that (hide to recover from bullets and reload) maybe 4-5 times. But I'm 100% certain I never aimed directly at the spawn point. Such behaviors simply pisses me off and I would never do that to another players".
If it pisses you off then you'll understand why we don't permit on our server. BTW,I am 100% certain you were.

"I got a message from the console saying something like : "Viper stop spawn camping or I'll ban you."
The message Said,"
I never said you were Spawn Camping. I said spawn killing. Someone else was calling you a camper before I ever said anything to you.

So the admin on the console answered he just followed me on spec. To me it was clear from this point. We certainly don't have the same description of what spawn camping is.
At this point, you should have realized that it's the admins description that counts and stfu.

"then there is 10 to 15 players that needs to be banned" trying to state my point, since I seen a lot of players, including few DDD members, that are running across ennemies's base on regular basis. But I am not here to talk about other's behaviors but mine".
You got caught first. Now please tell me of any other DDD members that do this. I have been known to ban members for doing it in the past. It won't be the first time, nor the last.

"Nah, for running ennemys base with silenced weapon and UAV jammer" That's it... 3 secs later I been kicked off the server.
That's the statement that got you kicked. You were never banned. But now that you fully understand our definitions, next time will get you banned without any further warnings.


"Please post banned players here. This way we will know the reason when they come back and pout." This is the subtitle of your private ban sub forum.
Wrong. That isn't the subtitle of our Banned section. You must be thinking of another forum belonging to another server you may have been banned from.

by the length of your post I think I did the right thing by kicking you since I don't care to carry on with long chats after I have said something.

Thanks a lot Geronimo for your reply. It is much appreciated.

By reading your post, I figured out what caused this misunderstanding. I felt accusated of spawn camping while you made an observation about spawn killing. All my fault and I'm sorry if I have over reacted.

Thanks also for stating your personal definition of spawn camping / sniping / killing. It's always easier to follow a rule when it's loud and clear.

But to be totaly thruthful, and with all the respect I have toward you Geronimo, this profoundly disapointed me.
[quote="geronimo"]Wrong. That isn't the subtitle of our Banned section. You must be thinking of another forum belonging to another server you may have been banned from.
There was just no point in this. I don't see the reason of discrediting somebody to prove a point. Mostly that your post so far was clear enough and didn't needed any further comments. I'm a fair player, always trying to help out the ones in need. Have you ever saw me switch back after auto-balance switch me as my team is about to win a match? I will even sometime voluntary switch to the losing team, to make a game last longer and to get more challenge. I never got banned from any server, would it be CoD or any other game. I used to host a server for CoD 2 and 4. I also used to be 1 of the most respected guild leader on 1 of the top 5 NWN servers, where I helped the creator to pay for the CoLo fees. I know exactly how hard it can be for you guys to enforce your rules and I would never do anything to make things harder for you. And mostly, never would I lie or make up things, for any reasons, even if it could do me good. I'm mature enough to accept and live with the consequences of my actions.



This apart, thanks again for your quick reply.

(GFD) Viper_711

I was referring to the Banned section of our forums. Your screen shot shows you actually have access to the members section. How is that possible. I always thought that section was locked from the public. Please explain.

Ok, never mind. I noticed that you can only see the private section exist but have no access.

I had never noticed this before and maybe he has a point. A subtitle like this should be edited out as it is unnecessary.

Edited