Hmm, I took them away from the center already. So put them only to the base and maybe some few ammo to the ground of the sniper-houses?

hey. i have to ask foibos to load the map with shock rifle. (or maybe much more weapons, not only shocks)
today i've played this map, and the only two PvP weapons to be used were flack and minigun! a map with only these two weapons is soo poor. so, i hope next time, we will be able to play a better version of this map.

i agree... only weapons i used today were link gun, flak and minigun...

i can only speak for myself and am not sure whether my opinion is shared by the majority or not, but as a known SR-user & combo whore it would be very useful for me if i had the shock back on that map to improve my close and mid-range combat performance....

of course there is the argueable fact that tanks won't survive long in case the shocks get back... BUT - i don't consider this as negative! it prevents excessive tank-spamming and forces ppl to fight by foot and concentrate on building nodes rather than linking the tank that is destroying node 3 and killing ppl who get near to it...

to sum it up - i share the wish of crusha and hunt but YES i can also live without it... even if it doesnt make me happy
and isn't that the goal of the game? to have fun? ^^

Game without SR is possible and even fun, but i cant say it better than game with SR it is just different. And if a lot of ppl including our top players want SR back than map should have SR. And is this possible to vote on this forum? We need voting

Could you PLEASE put the new versions with the Shocks back online finally?!

The current one is a disaster. Tank-camping everywhere, you don't have the range to fight it, not even talking about the minigun-spammers or those who can shoot the base from far away and you can't do anything about it.

There is also no chance to stop the enemies somehow, because you have no weapon to push 'em around.


I only hear comments like "boring", "bad map", "shit map" "spam-map" and so on… do you want to keep this going until it's completely unpopular? (that won't take so much time anymore).

I really don't know when you came up with the opinion that your ideas for map never fail and are always the best, but you should stop with that as soon as possible before you ruin some more great maps. It's quite sad to watch…

It's weekend, Crusha. Take it easy, updating the maps on server isn't my only job, I need to relax without this game at least few hours. Uploading.

Edit: Split into two posts because this so called msg board is lame.

Umm, okay, wtf? Have you all been licking 'shrooms off the walls while I've been away and suffering from mass hallucinations now or something? What's all this absurd talk I'm seeing for 2 pages here about the shock rifle being this almighty formidable weapon that spells doom to anyone who dares even gaze upon its business end? Have we been playing different games all this time?


thomasito wrote:
[...]on spiff nevertheless it is indeed almost too powerful... three direct hits and the enemy is down (in case he doesnt have shield / big keg o'health)...[...]First off, what do you mean "on spiff"? Does the weapon acquire extra powers on this map that it doesn't have everywhere else or something? Or what particularly is it about Spiff among the hundreds of other maps that have been played on the serv that brings about this alleged supernatural boost in the SR's firepower?

thomasito wrote:
[...]i can understand foib with his wish to remove them and imo it's not that bad cuz everybody lives a bit longer and therefore has more fun playing...[...]Let's get serious for a moment, shall we? The SR works the SAME way on every map, including Spiff, and it always takes the same 3 direct hits to kill a 100hp enemy. If you have extra health and/or armour, your mileage may vary of course. So what, I ask? That's how it's ALWAYS been; is this news to anyone? Does reading about the SR's abilities even sound alarming to anyone? Cause if it does, well, I got some bad news for you because there's 5 other weaps I can name off the top of my head, not including the supers, that can kill much better AND faster than the SR. The shock may definitely have its advantages, but SO DO the rest of the weaps in the UT2k4 ONS arsenal.

foibos wrote:
[...]And don't forget to add the supershock to every locker, it could be even better then.Honestly, I've no idea what all this newfound frenzy about having or not having the SR are all about, but they do remind me of one other recent similar scare tactic case: the swine flu. Newsflash: you can play and kill others just fine without the SR just as you can survive and live your life just fine without the oft-praised new flu vaccine.


Another little piece of oddness here:
crusha_k_rool wrote:
[...]There is also no chance to stop the enemies somehow, because you have no weapon to push 'em around.[...]Say what?! What does anyone stand to gain favouring momentum imparting weaponry on a map like Spiff where there's no aerial vehicles, perilous catwalks or low gravity? I'd easily accept that as a valid argument if we were talking about Spacejox, StarReach or something like that, but here, now, I think you're just making up reasons for why you're having it off worse without the shock -_-. C'mon, man...

Seeing as I seem to be on mythbusting duty tonight, I might as well move on to the next myth... tank vs. shock!

thomasito wrote:
[...]of course there is the argueable fact that tanks won't survive long in case the shocks get back...[...]foibos wrote:
Ok, sorry. But the vehicles including the tanks are almost useless there, they are being smashed in few seconds by blue lasers barrage.[...]I'm tempted to challenge anyone believing this crap to go find a stopwatch, load up ONS offline and time how long it takes you to kill a full health goliath using the flak, then rockets, then the avril, linkgun fire and then with a shock rifle. I bet you the results will not be favourable for the SR. I've no idea where this new fable about the SR being the ultimate armour killer are coming from, but I can tell you they're flat out wrong. If any of you think that the best way to attack a tank is with the shock, be my guest and try that, see how you do. But don't come back trying to weasel out of the argument by talking about multiple lemmings charging a tank with their pew-pew laz0rz, because if the story doesn't hold for one SR, you can bet it won't for more compared to any other weap - hell, even chained linkgun fire. SR is the wrong weap against armour - FACT.


Lastly,
thomasito wrote:
[...]as i see I'm kinda torn between "keep them removed" and "bring them back"... actually neither would bother me so let's make a majority vote on this. just make a poll and link to it ^^Sigh... This is something I've been wishing, hoping and talking for for months now, but to no avail, even after proposing and suggesting all the right tools and methods to do it with (ballot-box.net, tinyurl and using the auto-messages to link 'em). Sadly, Foibos never seemed to seriously consider opening up any sort of important issue to a poll, assuring us that he'd back up ANY result the majority vote might give. We can just face facts, then, that this is not a democracy - even though our words can potentially influence the admin's decisions, but that's the extent of it - and just go back to trying to sway his opinion through complaints whenever we spot something wrong :/. I really wish we'd make decisions about the game we all enjoy playing daily together as a community, like it seems to happen with Titans/Omni, but meh, maybe it's something we'll have to grow into first, who knows.


PS: About this...
crusha_k_rool wrote:
[...]I really don't know when you came up with the opinion that your ideas for map never fail and are always the best, but you should stop with that as soon as possible before you ruin some more great maps. It's quite sad to watch…[...]I think you need to calm down a bit and remember whom you're talking to. Foibos' decisions may not always find us all agreeing with 'em - hell knows, I've been vocal even beyond my fair share at times when I could spot flaws with them - but in any case, the man has been doing this for a long time now, alone, with no long breaks, compensation or much in the way of gratitude from the players, long before you decided to put on your mask n' cape and fly down here to save the server with your awesome map editing powers (not to say they're not appreciated either though). He's been managing this server for over a year now, making decision after decision about adding and dropping maps, improving anti-cheat measures and other helpful ONS options, wooing mappers and other ppl from various older ONS communities who were slowly abandoning ONS, helping establish and build around the server this small community, all just for the love of the game. IMO, if the ranking stats are any kind of proof all this time, I'd say he's been doing a damn good job of it. So, I think a little bit of courtesy and good faith are in order here, no?

pegasus_ wrote:
PS: About this...[...]

Yeah, I lost a bit of self-control in that post. It referred to an argue that Foibos and I had on ICQ about changes on the Battlefront.
I won't write what it exactly was all about but we spent the whole evening with arguing and while he was looking more for realism (as far as that is possible in UT) while I was more considering the gameplay-aspects.
I made 3 versions of the Battlefront that evening always trying to respect his wishes as long as it doesn't seem really bad for the gameplay to me; you have to give me the freedom of having an own opinion about what I am working on, please.

After he tested my third version he came back to ICQ and wrote me "You disobeyed me again". That was the straw to break the camel's back for me, because it seemed to me like he expected me to be his slave.
I stopped the arguing about the map for that day and left him alone.
So maybe I was still a bit pissed when wroting that post, sorry for that.

I'm such a bad guy if I want to keep lower visibility in lake and equal ADS height. Trifling dispute, isn't it? But I really didn't mean to piss you off, as long as you're our only mapper. Shock Rifles ruin the WW2 feeling of Spiffingrad more than anything else, but if you like them, you should have them. Am I drunk or Peg is praising me? It must be a parallel universe... Thanks anyway, man.