I've been watching this for a week or so, and I have held back from replying.

First, I applaud Martin for having the courage to care, and make those feelings known. I don't disagree with recycling, reducing emissions, etc. Those things are definitely decent, responsible things to do even if you don't think that 'humans are destroying the world'.

My problem comes from the motivations. (look into 'crisis media' - basically shows how the 'crisis' has been used as a tactic since at least the '70's to sell news and agendas by promoting fear in one thing or another, a crisis driven media) I don't buy the whole 'global warming' b.s. It's extremely arrogant (and irresponsible) to say we are destroying our climate. We, who have been polluting our planet for a bit more than 150 years, are responsible for destroying a planet that has (by best estimates) been said to be about 4.5 billion years old... So the world has existed for roughly 30 million times longer than our 'pollution' and we are going to destroy it? No. We might ruin it for ourselves but the planet will go on. It'll shake us off like a dog with fleas. We just won't be here to see it. That is the real fear these people have, not fear for the planet but for themselves.

As for the climate changing faster now... Compared to what? In the 4,500,000,000 years that the Earth has been here humans have existed through about 200,000-300,000 years. We only became self aware enough and technologically advanced enough to study (and keep records of) things like climate in the last 150 or so years. In the grand scheme of things is 150 years of study enough to really say we 'know' what the weather is supposed to do? If so, why can't the weatherman on the local news tell me if it is really going to rain today, or how hot it will actually be? Because they are all still guessing. They use all their equipment and 'experience' to take a freaking guess and relay it to the masses as 'news'. We just don't know enough to call it correctly. The weather patterns may last longer than we have been studying them.

Our countries (most of us anyway) already do a great deal to slow/reduce pollution yet the problem persists, and is getting worse. Know why? Simple. The third world. No, they don't produce a lot of pollutants themselves, but they also don't regulate. Look at places in Africa and Asia. The people there (no offense intended, but if the shoe fits...) don't give a rats ass if the factory they work in pumps it's waste directly into the river they drink from, and neither does their government. They don't care if countries like ours move our garbage factories in and pollute. It's all based on greed and lack of education. The governments are greedy, and the people don't know enough to do anything else. China is now producing as much steel as the U.S. with almost no environmental concerns. That one industry produces as much pollution as Europe, and is unregulated and growing exponentially.

Giving up meat and riding your bike will never compete with that.

My point is that doing things like recycling and lowering emissions likely will reduce pollution but not necessarily 'save the world'. It might allow us to live longer, but there is no guarantee. We as individuals just can't do it. Our governments need to stop doing business with these polluters to ever even start to have an effect on it. It isn't going to change by 20 video-gamers riding their bike on Friday and giving up their lunchtime cheeseburger.

That's my two cents worth, hope I didn't step on any toes.

^ beautiful. you couldn't have worded it any better. I have a foot on the bandwagon as far as recycling and everything goes as well, not against it either.I feel exactly the same as you its not the actions in themselves that get's me; per say, its mostly the motives of these whack job..

not saying you're a whack job martin or bio ^^

smurfberry wrote:
Martin, I can tell you this, the earth wont die:). There are so many animals and trees, the earth can always make itself healthy again. Perhaps it will take the nature again millions of years, but the earth wont be destroyed:)
So the problems isnt that the earth will die, the problem is that the Human wont survive it. Animals, humans and trees wont survive it, only those micro things. And from those micro animals everything will start again like it did thousands of years ago.

So, dont be afraid for the earth, be afraid for yourself.
And btw, the climate is changing??
It has always changed and it will always change (Ice Age).
Yes, we are not doing good, but we are working to get our cars et cetera better.

alright, not to scare any of you, but the earth has a big chance of being destroyed, this won't happen today or tomorrow, it will take about 2.5 bilion years. that's when the sun will expand and destroy and probably reach the earth. after it expanded it will explode because of the reactions happening inside the sun. i will not explain those, that's for you guys to figure out or to learn about on school. but i hope that by then the technology will be far enough to save the earth.

For the first i wana say to charlie that yes we dont know, but we cant find out either. I dont wana insult you but i dont think a big man just putted us here? We were bacteries that became fishes that got legs and got on land, and from there its a alot of animals before us. We got luck to have the perfect balance of things that gave us air and developed. Like march is a eco system under ice. If we can just get a bit gas there it can do the global warming and release even more gas and start it all. But we got the perfect distance from the sun, the perfect develope, so how big chance is it that its others? And why dont march have people then?

To rifledropper i know that we dont make so big change, but we can be a symbole for the good of man kind, and make away so all can enjoy the earth with out destroying it. And how we do that is by science.

Para yes, as everybody know is the sun just a big star and does the same thing as all stars.

But that BS that you sad about riflrdropper isent true. Its became alot hoter cause of this and alot issues in the world. And in 50 years it will be 10 degreese hotter. Celsius if you dont know. And that means that it will maybe be around 60 in africa at the summer. They wont be able to go out with out geting burned. Then they will move up to Spain and italy. Italy will go to german and france. And they will come up to the north and we in the north will have to go to antarctis. This wont destroy us, but will make it alot harder to live at our planet

LOL.

clearly no reasoning with you here.

I am clearly not some sort of fish bacteria Lmao. of all the theories I have ever heard trying to disprove the existance of God this one has to have made me laugh the hardest rofl. I dont even know if I should take you serious or not.

but I mean hey, If you want to think of yourself as some sort of evolved fish bacteria have a blast rofl.

It wasent maybe the most develope. but ask scientists cause almost all of them agree with me. But if you wana treat the world as crap and expect a guy to jump down from the clowds and save you, be my guest but this doom day that your so scared of will be closer then you think. And when you start burning dont ask me for help -_-

Ok, this 'discussion' is coming to a point where people are unwilling to accept differences in opinions.
As people are going off topic and I foresee people to get mad and try to go to another level of insulting, this thread is locked as of now. Just to protect people from getting hurt.
Bio